What is Business School Really Like?

Three B-school graduates from the US and one from the Netherlands demystify the experience.

Participants:
Melanie Sabarre, Fordham Graduate School of Business, New York 1999
George S. Uy-Tioco, University of Virginia, Darden 2000
Ana Ascalon, University of California, Los Angeles, The Anderson School 1999
Jay Gatmaitan, Rotterdam School of Management, Erasmus University Graduate School of Business 2002

What were your expectations before you entered graduate school? Was it much different from what you had experienced?

Melanie Sabarre: I didn’t know what to expect. I saw Graduate School more like college where everybody was hanging out with each other—common classes and common time—but it didn’t happen like that. There were cliques in the batch. The part-time students don’t hang out at all. Most Americans hung out with other Americans, Filipinos and other Asians would hang out together. The tendency is (for people of similar nationalities) to stick together.

Academically, because the market here is bigger than we have back home, there was a lot of catching up to do, a lot of readings.

Ana Ascalon: I was expecting it to be really competitive and have people very focused when they came in. I was really surprised because it was a very cooperative, team-oriented environment. The second year students were very helpful towards the first year students when preparing for interviews. One of the other expectations I had was that it would be pretty rigorous which it was, especially for the first quarter because you are just adjusting. Time management was key. You had to figure out what to do and when, like when to schedule meetings.

George Uy-Tioco: I definitely expected it to be very difficult because Darden has a reputation for having a very difficult program and sure enough it was. I found out early on that if I didn’t start reading my papers at exactly 2:30 in the afternoon, there was no way to finish it before meeting my learning team at 7:30 pm. At the same time, however, I was pleasantly surprised that it had a nurturing, collegial environment. There’s a lot of support from the faculty, from the second year students, from the international students. In my class, there were only 20% international students.

Jay Gatmaitan: As for me, I expected it to be really manageable. I didn’t expect to put so much time and effort. It was tough. The whole thing was challenging from the subject matter to the management of time. You had to do everything in a small amount of time. You had to put a lot of time into studying.

Was there a lot of competition between you and your classmates? If yes, how did you deal with it?

JG: There was some competition, but generally the environment was cooperative and friendly. There were only 150 of us in one incoming class. You knew everyone. It wasn’t cutthroat.
You really have to get along with people to survive. There’s a lot of group interaction and case studies so if you’re very individualistic, you’ll be ostracized and end up dragging everybody down.

MS: In my case, the competition was more with myself. You want to do well. A lot of it is you doing your own homework, reading, showing up to do this, passing the exam, giving in a good paper. Of course, there’s a tendency that there’s someone who’s really good in class but my motivation was never to beat him.

GU: Competitiveness depends on the school you go to. I’ve heard that in other schools they do things like one would say something and then another would put that person’s comment down. In Darden, it’s not like that because we’re a small school. If you do that, the teacher will be more prone to give you a deduction in class rather than a point for recitation because what they’re fostering is a cooperative community.

AA: One thing you realize after the first quarter is that no matter what you do it’s really difficult to fail. You’re going to pass business school. No one’s going to fail, and unless you are going to banking or consulting where they’re going to ask what your GPA is—and they only ask for that after the first term—it doesn’t really matter. So it’s really up to you to do well.

What was it like being a Filipino in your school? Where there a lot of international students?

MS: Filipinos at Fordham excel. I know we’re known for that. We have good track record. We also have good relationships with professors and the administrative people.

GU: In my case, Filipinos in Darden are minorities. The location alone, Virginia…so it’s a lot more difficult. But the nice thing about it is that in a lot of ways, your contribution brings diversity to the class. For example, in our marketing class, you can’t find any country in the world that’s closest to the US except for Canada and the Philippines. It’s nice that you can bring that kind of perspective. I never felt like I didn’t belong. That’s the nice thing about it. I know some people who’ve had some pretty bad experiences in Virginia especially those from minority groups but I never experienced it.

JG: There were only two of us Filipinos in a class of 150. We had a lot of nationalities at Rotterdam. Ninety-two per cent of the student population is composed of international students. It is really the most international MBA.

Because there were only a few of us Filipinos, I hung out with a lot of other nationalities, I was forced to be flexible and open-minded. You meet people who grew up very differently than you have, some grew up without any religion, no concept of God…

AA: For me, it’s funny because I was expecting a lot more Filipinos because there are so many Filipinos in LA. But there was only one Filipino in the year ahead of me, two other people in my year, none in the year after me and none in the last two years before me also. It was very international. Thirty percent of the population were international students. The class was pretty integrated. From a social standpoint, international students stuck together and American students stuck together. I felt like I was both. (Ed. Note: Ana took her undergrad in the US too.)

I didn’t feel I was American but I got along with Americans and international students.

I wasn’t so conscious about the fact that I was Filipino because people integrated pretty well into the program…what I was more conscious about rather than being Filipino is being a woman. You are such a minority in the school! Thirty percent are women but among the people who are interested in Finance, it’s only five percent… you walk into receptions for investment banking and they are all men. And here you are in a skirt and you feel kind of funny, it’s really still male-dominated.

In class, did you feel threatened because there were very few women? Was it uncomfortable?

AA: It’s a little bit intimidating because a lot of these men are brash. But after a while you realize a lot of them talk a lot of air and nobody wants to listen to that. One thing you realize is that, yeah, you feel mediocre sometimes, but you have as much to contribute as anyone. It’s just getting over that initial intimidation.

How/where did you unwind from your hectic schedules?

GU: There are a lot of things to do, especially because Charlottesville is a college town. There are a lot of college bars to go to. And there’s a lot of outdoor activity to do in the area because we’re right next to the Blue Mountain and the Shenandoah Valley. We go water rafting, biking, trekking. When you want to do something else, you can always drive to DC which is two hours away.

MS: Since a lot of (Filipinos) people go on vacation in New York, it takes a lot of time management. Monday to Thursday we have classes and it’s so hectic and you just want to unwind. Thursdays we have happy hour so that’s what we do. We hang out with people in school, have a couple of drinks. And then when people are here (to visit), you bring them out on Saturdays and Sundays. The good thing about the schedule at Fordham is that we have classes late in the afternoon to late in the evening. So even if we’re up late at night, you still have the morning to sleep.

AA: First year, I worked, so I didn’t really have a lot of free time. But when I did, I watched movies. Thursday nights we also had happy hour. It was called Beer Buzz. I think every school calls it something else. Stanford calls it “Liquidity Preference.” London Business School called it “Sundown.” Thursday night, it was usually that and then Friday mornings we’d get together for beach volleyball but I never made it out that early because usually by Friday, cause I’d be so tired.

JG: My friends and I do the usual things, we go out, watch movies, have parties. Parties and drinking are part of the MBA experience. The advantage of studying in Europe is that if you have time to travel, you can just take the train and be in another country. Sometimes, the airplane flights are cheap. To Paris, it’s three hours by train. Belgium is one hour. If you have a Schengen visa you can go anywhere in Europe except for the UK.

How do you make the most of the business school experience with all the money that you’ve invested?

JG: Use it as a stepping stone for a career path that you plan on pursuing. Some people see it as a stepping stone to another country which is fair as well.

GU: For me the biggest thing is getting to know all kinds of people from different walks of life.
The other thing also is that if there are things in the school that you don’t like or are lacking, take the initiative to make the change because more often than not the administration will try to listen to you. At least that’s how I feel about it. We had an international student from Israel who started this whole series of introducing all the international countries to everyone. After class, we’d have a big presentation where we would serve food from the host country and describe the social, political, economic, geography of the country. It was a very well-received idea.

AA: Hang out with everyone! Don’t be picky. Don’t assume that you will only get along with other Filipinos. The Filipinos aren’t the only ones you’ll be good friends with. I think it’s easy to fall into that trap.

MS: How do you get your money invested? I guess try to work (abroad) for a year or more. It depends on your plans. Don’t go home right away. You spent so much, try to get it back.
Also, don’t be a geek those two years! Enjoy all the breaks that you get. Take advantage of all the discounts for students. Explore. Travel.

AA: Some people say, especially if they don’t get the job that they want, is it worth it? It really is when you factor in the fact that you meet people that you never would’ve met otherwise. You are surrounded by so many intelligent people. It’s never going to be like that again.

Why did you choose your school?

GU: For me, I decided to go to Darden because I liked the program. I actually applied to two schools, Wharton and Darden. I didn’t get into Wharton but I got into Darden and as soon as I found out I got in, I threw away all the other applications. The curriculum was what attracted me to Darden the most. The fact that it was a much smaller school, had a more collegial atmosphere, and a very strong emphasis on ethics. We have a whole course dedicated on ethics that everyone has to take.

AA: First of all, I got in. Honestly, they offered me money (scholarship) so I really couldn’t say no to that. Plus, my family lives in LA so that was another consideration especially knowing that it might not be the case in the future. As far as the school itself, the school has a very good over-all program and a very good finance program. A lot of the professors who are there have good credentials. They really know how to teach. My finance professors are really good and approachable which is very unlike what you would think finance professors would be like. The environment is very team-oriented. It was not competitive in a destructive way. Everybody is out there to help you.

There is also the opportunity to teach. A professor of mine during my undergrad offered me to teach in the undergrad program; and that was a really good experience that I would never have gotten.

An International Exchange Program also existed in Anderson. So I took my Fall semester in London Business School, and for me that was a good opportunity because it’s like studying in two schools!

MS: I wanted to study in New York because I have family here. I got into Fordham and was wait listed in Columbia so I decided on Fordham. One thing that attracted me to Fordham was their Global Professional Program. We had a small core group, we were forty from different countries and it was really diverse.

I liked the assistantship and the opportunity to work with professors. For me that’s a big plus in the program especially for us since they like Filipinos working with professors. Feedback from the people who studied there before I did was pretty positive, especially regarding the finance courses.

JG: I chose this school partly because of the length of the course and the price of the MBA. I had lived in the US before and wanted something different. I wanted to see other parts of the world. I wanted to be in a top school in Europe and at the time of my preparation, the value of going to school in Amsterdam was reasonable because of the length of the program (18 months) and the exchange rate. I also didn’t have to learn another language.

What are the best techniques to land an internship or a job?

GU: If you are looking for a job in a company that does not normally recruit on campus, it is usually very difficult unless you find someone in the company who came from your school who can champion you. Start networking in school! Start with the alumni.

Coming from a school like Darden, which is in Charlottesville, Virginia is already a point against you. I knew that when I decided on that school, but still I felt that the benefits of the program outweighed the negative points. So for my internship, my goal was to get one in New York City…My goal was to be able to show that this is where I wanted to be. My advice for those who want to be in investment banking: working in New York is what you have to do.

AA: Contacting people who were alumni of your school is the best way because they are willing to help you. It’s to their best interest to help you prepare for the interview. I also found out during industry cocktails and ceremonies that investment banking in the Philippines is not as male-dominated as it is in the US. Here, you have to prove yourself so much more. First, coming from a school in California, they have this perception that it’s more laid back… then there’s the fact that you’re a woman…you really have to prove yourself. And if you think that a cocktail reception is something relaxed and more social, it’s really not. You are constantly being watched. They seriously ask associates when you’re on your second year: who stood out, what do you think of this person, etc etc. Be really careful.

MS: Be upfront. Let employers know that you need sponsorship when you are looking for a job.

JG: Your school’s Career Management office can also help you.